A friend recently asked me who he should vote for and what I thought about the candidates. I’ve already voted for Obama, so I decided to show him why I voted for Obama and why I think voting for McCain is a terrible idea.
The reasons are listed below. If you’d like any information on any points, or sources, let me know!
OBAMA — reasons you should vote FOR him.
1. Your taxes will go down under him. You receive less than 250,000 a year, and thus this will help you.
2. You ability to get health care once you are on your own will be much easier if you vote for Obama.
3. He is pro-choice, but as our economy sucks right now, I doubt anything will be active on this front anyways.
4. He is not against the war, but believes we need to pull out. He voted against funding for troops WITHOUT a time table, which is different than voting against the troops.
5. He is favored by economists around the US and world, because his economic plan is wonderful.
6. He is Christian, not Muslim, and half Africa, not Arab. Although, as Colin Powell said: why would it matter if he WERE a Muslim or an Arab?
7. His running mate, Joe Biden, is ready to be president, thank God, if anything should happen to him.
8. Biden also boasts impressive foreign-policy experience through his years in the senate.
9. Obama and Biden agree that diplomacy is the best way to get things done internationally. That means sitting down without pre-conditions, and not saying “I’m not talking to you until you say I am right.” Other major people (including Henry Kissinger, who endorsed McCain) agree with Obama.
“Former U.S.Secretary of State Henry Kissinger today told an audience in Washington, DC that the U.S. should negotiate with Iran “without conditions” and that the next President should begin such negotiations at a high level.”
10. Obama is for energy independence, and realizes that off shore drilling is not going to get us more oil now. He favors telling oil companies they need to tap into land they already own rather than tapping into new lands, and if they don’t use the land they already own then we’ll take it back, since it’s wasting hundreds of acres that we could be using in other ways.
MCCAIN — reasons you should vote AGAINST him.
1. He was part of the Keating 5. (this needs explanation, please see link: http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/23316912/makebelieve_maverick/print
2. He has continually smeared Obama and done nothing to curb hatred at his rallies. You have probably heard people scream “Kill him” and “Terrorist.” It’s no wonder, when McCain’s running mate says Obama is “palling around with terrorists.” Obama’s relationship with Bill Ayers is nothing more than a business relationship that many other people–Republicans and Democrats–have with him. And, oh, one more thing: he was acquitted. So…
3. McCain believes that we should be in Iraq for longer, and that we should stay there to “win.” Guess what: you can’t win an occupation. Meanwhile, he also voted against the troops because he didn’t support a time line, so he’s just as at-fault as he claims Obama is. McCain was in Vietnam, and the fact that he thinks we need to stay in Iraq means to me that he learned nothing from his time in Vietnam.
4. McCain has changed his mind on everything he once stood for, including regulation.
“But, McCain’s flip-flops represent an even bigger affront to the straight talk he promises voters.
As a presidential candidate, McCain now opposes his own immigration plan. He backs the Bush tax cuts he once opposed with contempt. While McCain presents himself as a maverick feared by lobbyists and special interests, his campaign has many ties to both and includes staffers who were once lobbyists.
Last week, the Republican called for lifting the moratorium on offshore drilling, a dramatic contrast with his strong support for upholding the moratorium during his 2000 bid for the Republican nomination.
A former prisoner of war, who suffered torture in Vietnam, McCain has called for the US detention center in Guantanamo Bay to be closed and for torture to be banned. Last week, he criticized the US Supreme Court for “one of the worst decisions in the history of this country” after the court ruled that detainees should be allowed to challenge their detentions in US courts.
McCain has also been trying to distance himself even further from an earlier comment that it “would be fine with me” if the US military stayed in Iraq “for a hundred years,” a remark he qualified at the time with the condition that Americans were not being injured or killed.
Meanwhile, McCain is blasting Obama for opting out of public financing. But as Media Matters for America reports, McCain is being asked by federal elections officials to show that he did not use the promise of public money to obtain a $4 million loan to kickstart his once faltering presidential campaign. Doing so would be disingenuous from a candidate who is routinely described as a champion of campaign finance reform.”
(from a Boston.com article, in the Boston Globe.)
5. McCain chose Sarah Palin. A woman who is not qualified to run anything, even Wasilla, Alaska. A woman who flaunts her children around like they are accessories, when they should be home, resting, being children. A woman who has been found to have broken ethics laws in Alaska, and who recently was found to have abused her spending abilities by charing her children’s travel to the state.
6. McCain is for the overturning of Roe v. Wade. Which has more to do with the privacy of men and women rather than the idea of abortion. Another conservative or two on the Supreme Court means that our country will quickly take away more of our privacy, including abortion rights and other rights (think phones, internet, etc.) I encourage you to watch this video, in addition: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk6t_tdOkwo
7. He is a jerk. I know this is not a very good reason, but alas: he left his first wife for Cindy, and had an extra-marital affair with Cindy while he was still married to his first wife. He divorced her because he wasn’t ready to suffer with her, since she had been horribly injured in an accident. In his first wives’ first words, “My marriage ended because John McCain didn’t want to be 40, he wanted to be 25. You know that happens…it just does.” I can’t get over that. I hate cheating, and I find it offensive that he cheated on his wife. He could have waited until he was divorced, if he really loved Cindy and cared about his wife Carol, but he didn’t. And I can’t forgive him for that.
8. He voted against MLK, Jr. day, and voted against the Katrina commission, and voted against a million other things I am appalled at.
9. He sang the song, “Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran.” NOT FUNNY. Not funny. Not funny. Can that be any more clear how NOT FUNNY and NOT APPROPRIATE that was?
10. He doesn’t respect many civil rights and liberties. Among them, equality in marriage and civil liberties for detainees.
Here’s my issues with your points on Obama by point:
1. I earn over $250k because I sacrificed, put myself through school, and worked 60-100 hours/week ever since to make it. Now Obama will raise my taxes so that I HAVE to share it with people who don’t make the same sacrifices, or work as hard.
2. I opt buy my health insurance already, so I can’t see how Obama will help this.
3. I’m pro-choice, but Obama’s over-the-top. He even didn’t dispute a bill that would literally kill a premature baby born due to a botched abortion. To me, that’s murder.
4. Iraq was a folly, but it will be even worse if we give a timeline to withdraw. The Iraqi government, and most Americans agree on this: Most want us out quickly. So, I think this will happen without a timeline.
5. This point is laughable, and you really need to site some sources.
6. I believe he’s Christian, and religion has no place in politics. For the record, he’s 1/2 causian, 15/16 Arab, and 1/16 black.
7. Biden’s definitely got more experience than Obama, that’s for sure. Although he admits Hillary was the better choice.
8. It’s great that Biden has experience, but you usually want this at the TOP of the ticket.
9. I agree, that you need to have diplomacy, but WITH pre-conditions. Even Kissinger said only as high as the Secretary of State should be involved with countries such as Iran.
10. Actually off-shore drilling could get us oil in as little as 2 years. I agree that the oil companies should use the lands we’ve already leased to the IN ADDITION, but these lands will yield much more expensive oil. In addition, we need to work with renewable sources more, nuclear, and clean coal, all while focusing a shift to nearly 100% renewable within the next 20-50 years.
Here’s my issues your points on McCain:
1. OK, but the Senate’s ethics review cleared him of any wrongdoing. With names like Resko, Ayers, Phlegler, Wright, and ACORN in his closet, I wouldn’t bring up Keating…
2. When you launch a campaign from an unrepentant domestic terrorist’s living room, “palling around” is a fair depiction. OJ was acquitted too.
3. McCain believes we should stay in Iraq for as long as it takes. He has no problem leaving in a year if the country picks itself up. If the US were an occupier, than why would we relinquish control? Yes, we occupy space, but it’s being given back once the Iraqis take charge.
4. In 2005 McCain wanted to regulate the securities that are now a problem. I’ll admit he’s pandered (like Obama) but he’s been pretty steady compared to most politicians.
5. Palin has more executive experience than McCain, Obama, or Biden. As things shake out, we’re finding that many of the accusations against her don’t stick. Her family is really none of your business. Focus on the issues like her right-wing agenda if you want to make a point.
6. McCain is for making that a state-issue, and not deciding this on a national level.
7. You’re right, it’s not a good reason, but you’re looking to smear, so you put it in. Yep, he left his first wife. Democrats don’t do this. And the Dems don’t cheat either. You caught the Republicans there!
8. He voted against MLK day federally. At some point there can only be so many official holidays. It can be a day to remember a great figure in our past, but do we really need to shut down the government for this? They get enough days off.
9. Please, that song’s been around for a while. I’ll admit the timing was terrible, but anyone with a sense of humor would let it slide.
10. Obama has the same stance on marriage as McCain. Detainees are detained while in combat with our troops, what should we do give them cable? What other ones does he not respect? Give examples.
My reasons for not voting for McCain are based on logic and rationale, and not emotions like ‘hope’. If that’s what you’re looking for, try going to church as all hope is, is another form of praying for something better to come.
I appreciate the comment. Please find my response below.
1. I am sorry that you feel that you shouldn’t pay any more taxes, but I believe in a world where even those who work 60-100 hours a week and put themselves through school and DON’T make as much as you are fortunate to make SHOULD pay less taxes than those who DO make over 250,000 a year. But I haven’t been in your shoes, so we can differ here.
2. If you buy your own health insurance, he won’t be helping you. But when did we start living in a world when the only person we care about is ourselves?
3. I would like to know what bill you are talking about. To the best of my knowledge, any bill he has voted against regarding banning abortion is because there was no prevision for the safety of the mother. Who is also a human, and who’s life is equally important, and thus should not be forgotten.
4. I disagree with you that it should happen without a timeline.
5. http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/10/21/google-ceo-defends-obamas-economic-proposals/?mod=googlenews_wsj, http://www.economist.com/world/unitedstates/displaystory.cfm?story_id=12342127
6. OK.
7. Evidence he admitted that?
8. Barack is also ready. Evidence he’s not?
9. Once again, “Former U.S.Secretary of State Henry Kissinger today told an audience in Washington, DC that the U.S. should negotiate with Iran “without conditions” and that the next President should begin such negotiations at a high level.” That’s what Kissinger said, actually. So as high as the President.
10. I just think that Obama’s plan for energy independence is more reasonable than McCain’s. http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/newenergy
Here’s my issues your points on McCain:
1. I would. And what’s wrong with ACORN? They turned themselves in. They register voters. What’s wrong with that? “The primary allegation against ACORN is that its voter registration drives result in many phony registrations. ACORN itself admits that some of its workers, in their attempts to meet registration goals, have turned in registration forms for people who do not exist or don’t live in the geographic area. (Notorious examples include Mickey Mouse and the starting lineup of the Dallas Cowboys.) ACORN says the problems are isolated, and that it works with officials to correct them. They claim to have registered 1.3-million people to vote, so a small number of irregularities are to be expected.” (Houston Chronicle.)
Not to mention the fact that what are the chances that Mickey Mouse is going to show up on election day? Mmmm….none.
2. I’m sorry…can you prove he “launched his political career in Ayers living room”? Please. Someone prove to me he was in his living room and decided that’d be the place to launch his career. http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/he_lied_about_bill_ayers.html
3. I don’t think we’re doing any good in Iraq, and I think we need to pull out. http://www.ontheissues.org/Celeb/Barack_Obama_War_+_Peace.htm
4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioy90nF2anI
5. Her family is my business if she’s using taxpayers money to pay for her family’s travel, actually. And until someone proves that she DIDN’T break laws (which they already proved she did) and until someone shows me she knows ANYTHING about what her job would be, I still say she can’t, won’t, would never be a good President.
http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=188638&title=understanding-real-america-in
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/10/palin-says-vice.html
6. I don’t think it should be a government issue at all. I think it should be private. Hence Roe v. Wade.
7. They do cheat. They do “do this.” But I find this a valid reason to not vote for McCain, and I’d have to look at it very hard if it were any candidate I’d consider voting for.
8. I still think it was wrong.
9. Yes, it’s been around for a while. Those aren’t the words. And it’s not funny to lightly talk about bombing a country. Ever.
10. I think it’s reasonable to give them constitutional rights…
“Senator John McCain, transforming a recent Supreme Court decision into a campaign issue yesterday, blasted the court’s ruling, which established that foreign terrorism suspects held in detention at the US military base at Guantanamo Bay have the constitutional right to challenge their detention in civilian courts.”
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/06/14/mccain_blasts_ruling_on_guantanamo/
My reasons are logical and rational, and I’d appreciate that you’d not demean the idea of hope, nor tell me that I should not vote on hope. I voted on hope and reason and logic. And maybe you should do the same.
1) No, I don’t feel I should pay a higher PERCENTAGE of my income than I already do. I’m already in the highest tax bracket, meaning that I have to work harder for every take-home dollar than most of the rest of people. This is ridiculous, and ‘unfair’ does not describe it. For people that attained my level of education, and work the kind of hours I do, usually DO make the kind of money I make. Many of the others never valued money that highly, and therefore never strived for it. You can’t then ask for me to carry their weight too. I donate both time and money to charitable organizations that help overcome dyslexia, burn victims recover, and poor kids get the supplies they need for school, and so on. This is voluntary, and that’s how it SHOULD be. If people making less than I did gave as much time as I did to these causes, we probably wouldn’t need half of the taxes we’re charged anyway.
2) If I pay for my health insurance, and don’t burden the system, why should I then pay for someone else to have equal or better insurance that DOES burden the system?
3) As originally proposed, the 2003 state bill, SB 1082, sought to define the term “born-alive infant” as any infant, even one born as the result of an unsuccessful abortion, that shows vital signs separate from its mother. The bill would have established that infants thus defined were humans with legal rights. It never made it to the floor; it was voted down by the Health and Human Services Committee, which Obama chaired. I’d say he voted against it.
4) Please note, I was against the Iraq invasion. However, we need to clean up our mess. Letting the enemy know when we are pulling out will allow them to hold off, and wait until we’ve left. If we know anything from history, learn from Afghanistan that we will create a deadly power vacuum. It’s better we work with the Iraqi’s on steps toward partial, and then full withdrawal over a period of time.
5) Your links are of an Obama supporter and a non-scientific poll. Sharing the wealth has never been a proven path to economic prosperity. People want to work, and be rewarded for it.
6) I’m surprised you let that one slide. So does most of the media.
7) Here you go, from his mouth: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVy2yh28eig
8) Yes, the fact that if elected president, it would be the longest he’s had a full-time job without looking for another one. How do you get experience when trying for the next job so hard? Biden should have been at the top of the ticket. At least he has the experience. Obama can just talk nice words about what he might do.
9) Here is the REAL quote from Kissinger: “Well, I am in favor of negotiating with Iran. And one utility of negotiation is to put before Iran our vision of a Middle East, of a stable Middle East, and our notion on nuclear proliferation at a high enough level so that they have to study it. And, therefore, I actually have preferred doing it at the secretary of state level so that we — we know we’re dealing with authentic…” I’d say point is proven. Even Kissinger does not want a President to sit down directly with some of these leaders. That’s a HUGE difference between what Obama says, and what an expert does.
10) Have you read McCain’s?
Your points on McCain:
1) If ACORN repeatedly has these problems, the issue goes to an organization level. This is a very partisan organization receiving federal funds with repeated violations of law. By their own admission, they may register 10-20% false registrations. 1.3 million times .2 is 260,000. I don’t think that’s something to be proud of. Additionally, this is one organization that is responsible for our current mortgage mess, but pushing Fannie and Freddie to accept much lower loan standards. No bad loans… no crisis. ACORN needs to get shut down. Some of the people there are great, talent people, but they can do more good in a real community organization. You also dance around the other associations: Ayers, Wright, Resko, or Phlegler. These guys are dirty, and part of a list of characters that back Obama… this scares me from a guy whose word we need to rely on because he has no real track record yet.
2) No I can’t. I wasn’t there. FactCheck.org is a GREAT resource, and I link to it on my blog as well. But did you really read this? Scroll down, and you will find this on that same page: “There are other connections between Obama and Ayers: The same year the two men met through the Annenberg Challenge, Ayers hosted a meet-and-greet coffee for Obama, who was running for state Senate and who lived three blocks away from him.” I don’t think my accusation is without merit. Sounds like they were closer than Obama would admit.
3) Again, we made a mess, and we need to clean it up. They now have elections, and the infrastructure is being rebuilt, they are well on the road to not needing us. As a matter of fact, it was announced months ago that we will begin troop withdrawals already as the Iraqis are becoming more self-sufficient.
4) Please try arbitrary sources, not attack ads. You make no point here.
5) We are innocent until proven guilty here. She has yet to have been proven guilty of anything, nor acquitted on questionable grounds. I don’t want her for president, but she’s the only one of the four that has actual experience in an executive position. That prepares you better than any other thing to be president.
6) Unfortunately Roe v. Wade was decided by the Supreme Court, which IS government. I believe in Roe v. Wade, yet think it’s a horrible decision to have to make for a mother.
7) Did you vote for Clinton? The difference is McCain came clean and told his wife, and ended it. Hillary had to find out through the press.
8) OK.
9) OK.
10) You want to give constitutional rights to people in a foreign land that are shooting at us? Yes, hug the enemy, that’ll stop them from killing you.
Hope is the lottery. Smart people don’t rely on the lottery to get ahead. Hope is floating in a raging river, grabbing your knees to your chest, and praying the current brings you to shore and gently drops you off. That’s not logic or reason. My personal slogan is “Make a great day happen”. You’ll find that no one else really can effect change and your own success as much as you can, so focus on that strength. Logic and reason, not passion and whims are what I base my business and life upon. It’s ignorant to claim that maybe I should try some hope, as I tried that before, and found it to be a waste of time. So yes, play the lottery, and HOPE Obama isn’t a failure, but get ready for the usual results of playing that lottery if he’s president… disappointment and lost money.
Loud Elf,
It appears we disagree on a lot of things, but I appreciate your responding. I don’t, unfortunately, have time to continue proving my points only to have you prove yours. Thanks for the insight into another facet of the argument for Obama or against McCain.
A few points:
1.) I do believe that ACORN is an excellent organization, and that registering false names isn’t going to become voter fraud because there is no chance that those fake people are going to come out and vote–Mickey Mouse isn’t a real person. I believe that this accusation against them is ridiculous, and that saying Obama is in the wrong for supporting an organization that gives people rights is ridiculous.
2.) I didn’t vote for Clinton–I was not old enough to vote then–but I would have. I believe he was an excellent man. And he did keep it from his wife, and that does mean that he is a jerk, but he was a better president than McCain could ever be, and I think that the point is he never claimed to be “Mr. Family Value” the way McCain’s camp has continually meant for McCain to look.
3.) Yes, I do want to give constitutional rights to people in a foreign land that are shooting us. Did you ever stop to think maybe there is a good reason they are shooting at us? That maybe we’re in the wrong? Not to mention most of the people that are detained are never a) told why they are being held or b) charged at all. Allowing our government to make calls on who gets rights and who doesn’t is dangerous–everyone should be innocent until proven guilty, in your own words.
4.) Speaking of that, Palin has been proven guilty for violating ethics laws.
Thank you for this healthy debate, I appreciate it.
“I do believe that ACORN is an excellent organization”
— If registering 10-20% of problematic registrations isn’t at the very least inept… I’d hate to see what your definition of those terms is. The organization needs to be shut down. Again, the root cause of our economic collapse is groups including your beloved ACORN, who pressured Fannie and Freddie to lower the lending standards without any regard to the catastrophic consequences.
“I didn’t vote for Clinton–I was not old enough to vote then–but I would have. I believe he was an excellent man. And he did keep it from his wife, and that does mean that he is a jerk, but he was a better president than McCain could ever be”
— Did you just read what you read? You couldn’t vote for a guy that cheated on his wife, but would have voted for Clinton because even though you weren’t old enough to vote for him, you somehow feel he was better than McCain could be? Seriously? I don’t think that should be an issue when reviewing either man’s legacy, but there is a difference: Clinton was devious about it. McCain was up front, and is still friends with his ex-. That speaks volumes about character. I really think you should sit down and read some more information, or give this some thought as my Hypocrimeter (hypocrisy meter) just spiked.
“Yes, I do want to give constitutional rights to people in a foreign land that are shooting us.”
— You’re starting to scare the daylights out of me. This country openly supported the purpotraitors of 9/11. These people, knowing this, are still shooting at our military who toppled the Taliban, and you want to give them constitutional rights? Go talk to some people that lost loved ones in the towers, the pentagon, or on the plane, and tell them that… although, I’d bring a helmet before you do. They KNOW why they’re being detained, unless shooting at a military that is nice enough not to kill you confuses you.
“Allowing our government to make calls on who gets rights and who doesn’t is dangerous”
— Same with our government deciding who gets taxed at a miuch higher rate because they’re less deserving of their money. That’s what our government does… it governs. I agree, they should leave the people alone, just not the ones shooting at them.
I wonder though, do you really like this debate, or someone who visits your blog? I hope its the former, as often debate is how real change can occur.
–I don’t think that 10-20% of registrations being problematic is an issue because ACORN turned themselves in. They check up on each and every registration, and make sure that the ones that aren’t valid are disposed of. Once again, there is no chance of Mickey Mouse showing up to vote. And, if you want to talk about organizations that should be shut down, take a look at the voting machines that are changing votes from Obama to McCain—you should focus your efforts THERE.
“Voters in Putnam and Jackson counties have said the touch-screen voting machines they were using switched some of their votes from the Democratic to the Republican candidates, according to news reports.” **http://www.statejournal.com/story.cfm?func=viewstory&storyid=45857&catid=164
— I would have voted for Clinton because I think he did his job. I would not vote for McCain because I feel as though he gave up on his marriage, and I feel he has cheated the American people by pretending to be full of morals and then blatantly disregarded them in his own life, and his divorce is merely one example of that.
— Please refer to these articles:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/mar/06/iraq
http://www.amnesty.org.uk/actions_details.asp?ActionID=488
There are others like it, and although the first one is old, they ring true. The fact is, they do NOT know why they were charged.
I think, personally, that everyone deserves constitutional rights. I don’t think it is fair to say that murders don’t deserve a trial, or to be treated humanely. I’d like to think that even if someone had lost a family member in 9/11 or in Iraq or Afghanistan, they’d realize that the people who are on the Iraqi or Afghani side ALSO believe in their country, and also died for their cause, their family, and thus if they are found to have committed crimes will be held to the standards of an American in that they will be told what they are held for, have a trial, and not be treated inhumanely. I hardly think that a reasonable person would disagree that every person in this world has a family out there that would want them to be treated humanely, and that just because we’re on the American side doesn’t make us right. People forget that Iraqis and Afghanis, and YES Saudis, all have their own version of the “truth.” And I don’t believe we’re any more right than they are. They die for their country, Americans die for our country, and I’d hope if they captured our troops they’d treat them humanely as well.
–And I don’t care if you visit my site or not. I don’t care if anyone reads my blog. It was never intended to be a highly trafficked site. While I am glad some people have taken interest, it was more for my friends to see how my life was doing. I don’t care if I am the only one who reads it, or if the entire world sees it. I am who I am, and I write what I believe, and if people want to know me, then here is my heart, and soul, and thoughts.
ACORN receives a large amount of federal funds. On top of the fact that they are horribly inept, they are very partisan, and try to only benefit one party. Your link mentions a “few” people had problems due to machine malfunction, but does not validate these problems, so even if true, I’ll take a “few” over HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS. Again, you ignored my point about ACORN’s direct involvement in this housing and market crash…
My Hypocrimeter is going nuts with you again… You hate a guy who went to his wife, and ended their relationship over an affair, but give a free pass to another guy who cheated multiple times, didn’t end it, and even lied under oath and to the American people about it? This doesn’t pass the laugh test at all. I agree, Clinton was a good president, and I voted for him. I didn’t detract from his legacy due to the fact he couldn’t keep it in the pants, but had a MAJOR problem with him lying about it in a press conference to the American people. Is that who you really want to champion? Yet, you’ll claim that a guy, who by all rights, took the more honorable approach is not as fit to be president as Clinton was? Your logic escapes me.
The people in Afghanistan who fight us openly support the Taliban (a regime that not only wouldn’t allow you to have your blog, but would bar you from wearing anything but a burkha, not let you go to school, and if you spoke out against them, have you beaten or killed) or Al-Qaeda, a terrorist organization that wants death to come to all Americans (and basically anyone not in their religion). Not only this, but their crimes happen, not on US soil, but Afghani soil, where our constitution has zero jurisdiction. And do you think that Americans are treated anywhere nearly as well? In most cases, they are not given a choice between life and death. In Afghanistan, they are not freedom fighters, so please don’t try to sing me that song. They are supporters of a regime that attacked the United States. Most of whom we are fighting aren’t even natives to the land, they come in from other areas (Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Iran, and so on.)
I didn’t respond to your ACORN bit because I haven’t been able to find that story from any credible source other than right-winged sources.
Clinton may have lied about his affair, but that’s better than someone so blinded by what they believe to be true that they don’t realize they are as far from the truth as they could be. (A.k.a. McCain, and “fundamentals of our economy are strong.) You got me–Clinton was a jerk, and lied about his affair. I still hate McCain.
We’re not “freedom fighters” either.
All I am saying is that they believe what they believe, we believe what we believe, and I am not going to sit around pretending we’re right when we might not be.
“Fighters range from former figures in Saddam Hussein’s Baath party to Sunni nationalists fearing Shia domination and foreign Islamist fighters who see Iraq as an arena for a global struggle against the West.
The incentives driving individual insurgents are equally disparate – from religious zeal to economic gain, nationalist feeling and anger at the loss of loved ones to the conflict.
Virtually all insurgent groups share the goal of attacking US forces, but other goals vary – with some elements apparently aiming to foment civil war. ”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4268904.stm
There are lots of different people attacking us in Iraq and Afghanistan for different reasons. Not all of them are the Taliban, and not all of them are Al-Qaeda. And not all of them are wrong.
In addition, may I remind you:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3842398
This article shows that both sides had violated the POW rules:
http://www.cfr.org/publication/7699/#5
I am not saying they treat us better, or that they always treat US troops correctly. That doesn’t mean we should break laws ourselves.
I guess you are one of those people that no matter what facts and information are presented to you, you refuse to change your mind. It’s a shame you’re like that at such a young age. Hate is an emotion, and a strong and irrational one. It scares me that you can hate McCain, as you have never met the man, and apparently know little about him prior to this election cycle. I dislike his pandering to the right that he’s done over the last 2 years, much like I dislike Obama’s. I remain logical in this approach and lose the emotion. There will be plenty of time for emotion, when I get raped by Obama’s tax policy.
I agree, our troops are not freedom fighters, and it disgusts me to hear Bush refer to them in similar terms. Frankly Bush disgusts me, and I will note that as a top 10 mistake in my life — voting for Bush in 2000 (I didn’t repeat that mistake in ’04). However, you need to separate Afghanistan from Iraq. In Afghanistan, the enemy supports the regime and organization that purpotrated 9/11. These are not freedom fighters, and I would be happy letting them die on the battlefield. Somehow, our troops have compassion and let them surrender, only to feed them, clothe them, and give them medical attention, all to a higher degree than they received prior to fighting us.
In Iraq, you’re right, there are a lot of factions. Al-Qaeda infiltrated (and hadn’t been there before we invaded) and cause massive damage to us and our infrastructure. Not a party I consider freedom fighters. Baathist fought us, so they could return to power. They are part of the reason we went in. Sunni’s fought us for fear that the Shia that they had repressed for years would return the favor. Not really a lot of respect or pity for that faction. The Iranians trained and equipped a large number of Shia and sent them to fight us. Again, another group I’m not going to cry over. But I agree, we have been, and need to be held to a higher standard. But we see the news stories about some attrocities — many we’ve found to be exhagerated and retracted or modified — yet we fail to realize we have hundreds of thousands of people over there, and you’re bound to get a couple of small incidents. When was the last time you saw the news story about Americans getting shot at or killed while building a school? You rarely see this, not because it doesn’t happen regularly, but because the press likes blood, and they hate the war, so many don’t paint the real picture. I too don’t like the war in Iraq, but the media does a disservice in reporting only part of the story to the American public. Go talk to someone who’s been in Iraq, you’ll see quite a different side in most cases.
Please also don’t quote me blogs, or news sources with political agendas like MSNBC. They are not information sources, but more opinion sources at this point.